John Pinching shares a coffee with the Department of Health’s NHS/big pharma relationship expert, Naima Khondkar.
Hi Naima, what’s your story?
At the Department of Health I work in the Medicines, Pharmacy and Industry Group. The head is Giles Denham and he has a number of teams which sit under him. One looks after the pricing environment – which is very topical right now because of the negotiations – while the pharmacy team takes care of community and pharmacy issues. Another concentrates on prescription policy, and I’m in the industry sponsorship team.
How do you guys roll?
We’re almost account managers for the pharmaceutical industry, within government, and also the first port of call on health policy issues concerning research-based pharma companies, including global outfits that have locations in the UK. There’s a very high-level of strategic engagement, driven by the Ministerial Industry Strategy Group, which combines global heads of pharma, from as far afield as Japan and America, and ministers from health, business, the treasury and UKTI (UK Trade and Investment). The discussions are a great way to highlight how government policy can help partnerships. Our minister, Earl Howe, is a particularly engaging contributor, while ‘No 10’ frequently sends along a representative, indicating how serious the Government is about forming cohesive inter-sector partnerships.
How has the concept of joint working progressed?
Over the last few years we have carefully considered how to fundamentally improve the relationship between industry and the NHS, and a lot of this consideration has been carried out in conjunction with colleagues at the ABPI. There is still a lot of mistrust on both sides, however, and that is one of the greatest challenges reform needs to overcome. The NHS has the perception of pharma as being a big bad wolf, just above the arms and tobacco industries in terms of popularity! For some reason people have a big problem with the pharmaceutical industry making any kind of money. Sometimes I think the level of suspicion is unjustified, but then again, I don’t think pharma do themselves many favours sometimes. It’s important to be open and honest about these things! Equally, the NHS can sometimes be over-sensitive – they don’t like to be told by other people how to do their job.
What needs to change?
There needs to be a shift in how people on both sides view one another and they must learn to wipe the slate clean. Bad relationships can date back to minor incidents that happened 25 years ago, when a young, naive rep went into a meeting with a box of doughnuts to help flog a new product. Something as trivial as this may have resulted in a door being shut. Whereas now NHS representatives need to re-engage, open doors and think about the broader benefits of working together with the pharmaceutical industry towards joint goals. It’s really important that both sides build allegiances and forget past animosities. Ultimately this will benefit everyone.
Do the ‘different’ motivations of the public and private sector make gelling difficult?
There is an incorrect perception that, because pharma makes money, someone else has lost. We must remember that if people have their lives extended due to better treatment then NHS, industry and wider society has won. Recently Helen Bevan, NHS Director for Transformation, said both industries have been very target driven in the last 15 years and, consequently, the humanity factor has eroded. Healthcare professionals on the frontline have been too busy with waiting lists and reductions, while sales reps have been under enormous pressure to shift products and been too focussed on sales. Patient cases have become about performance measurement rather than health outcome, or quality of experience. Clearly there needs to be a radical change in priorities.
What can big pharma do to engender trust?
Their approach can be ill-informed sometimes. Often they think they know the NHS, but actually they need to fully appreciate the complexities of what is an ever-evolving beast. Companies need to consider who they make responsible to forge vital connections and forming sustainable relationships. They regularly send an under-qualified person, who might have the enthusiasm, but not the authority. With joint working one of the big issues has been compliance and, often, the pharma representative at the table can’t actually make a decision about whether a company can work in a certain way. This is one of the areas we are really trying to help with.
How should they alter their approach?
If pharma goes in simply looking for a market share increase, they’ll get figured out straight away. Representatives of the big companies need to prove that they genuinely want to improve a health economy or health outcome, before profits. These are the aspects that make the whole system better, and ultimately everyone wins. The CCGs want more people appropriately treated and that means less hospital admissions and, in turn, more financial resources will be available for commissioning. In this respect pharma needs to look at the bigger picture. Remember, every service that the NHS uses is a business – from nurses to bed sheets – but because of the fractious history, the NHS is suspicious about pharma making money. When they do engage the NHS needs to feel like pharma is an integrated and credible part of the solution, as opposed to a procured service. It’s a fine balancing act.
What are the priorities when it comes to galvanising joint working?
Since joint working was outlined as part of NHS reform we have been keen to establish how it can be improved. A policy working group in 2007 carried out some market research and they came up with some recommendations. The two major areas of focus, on our side, were the issuing of guidance – clear definitions of how the NHS works – and the language that should be used. This is a refreshingly concise 11 page document. We also addressed the practical side by combining with the ABPI to launch the, ‘Joint Working tool kit’. It’s an interactive quick-start guide, which includes exactly what the NHS’s definition of joint working is, essential templates and a versatile project management tool. Above all, it avoids jargon and allows people to understand what is required straight away. This has been endorsed by NICE, the NHS Alliance and Confederation among others. We will be looking again at how we can update these documents and make them more practical in the ‘new world’ and also partnering with industry [through the ABPI] and the NHS to review and revitalise both these tools.
Are you optimistic about fruitful partnerships?
Joint working will continue to be an important focus and a part of my day job. QiPP came and went, so we had to hold fire for a while, but now Innovation Health and Wealth (IHW) has provided a restructure, we are pretty sure of what is happening; six months ago we sat down and established that the shift of power is moving to CCGs. Now individual CCGs. Director of Partnerships, Ivan Ellul is particularly keen on localised, dynamic relationships and Mike Farrar is also a champion. Ian Carruthers is the NHS England lead for IHW and is also keen to encourage this type of engagement.
Do you feel that the tide is turning already?
I’m resolutely positive about changes within the NHS. I’ve had heated discussions with clinicians and pharma about joint working, because a lot of them see it as more rhetoric. Some companies, however, are hugely proactive and want to be pioneers of change. GSK are a good example. They’ve shifted their entire salesforce to encourage new ways of working with NHS counterparts. Their leader, Andrew Witty, is passionate about successfully transforming approaches and he’s someone you can believe in, because GSK have freed up patents, conformed to the ‘alltrials’ ideology and shared data. This has filtered down to the way they engage with the NHS and the company have been very smart, as they realise it’s about increasing the whole market. If a healthcare pathway improves it will produce better diagnosis, and better diagnosis means more appropriate and timely use of medicines.
Well said, thanks Naima!